Q and A: Rick Jamieson on Ole Kirk

TDN AusNZ's Bren O'Brien caught up with Jamieson to discuss the keys to getting the most out of one of the best-performed families in the Studbook, and the qualities which give Ole Kirk every chance of being a star stallion.

Bren O'Brien (B O'B): Rick, when you were designing a pedigree for a horse like Ole Kirk, who is from a family which already has such a fantastic reputation, what are the things that came into your consideration?

Rick Jamieson (RJ): I've got a hobby, which some may say is a sickness more than a hobby. I spend every waking hour studying pedigrees. Don’t ask me why, I wish I had have found lawn bowls!

The underlying thing with the Black Caviar family is a really strong domination of an old stallion called Grey Sovereign. That is the underpinning strength of the Black Caviar family. When I made that mating with Naturale as her full sister, I was just trying to re-enforce that Grey Sovereign-line. I chose Written Tycoon, because he has Grey Sovereign through Kenmare, which is a very potent line.

That was the reason I made that mating. It’s also the thinking behind Ole Kirk's half-sister, Gimme Par. I sent Naturale to Not A Single Doubt for the same reason and looking for that same re-enforcement. She looks like being a bloody good horse too. Sometimes you hit and you get it right and sometimes you miss.

B O'B: You obviously spend a lot of time looking through the pedigrees of these mares and finding stallions that help bring those qualities to the fore.

RJ: My theory is that I try to find the strength in the dam, and I try and re-enforce those through a stallion or I look at a stallion and will look to find his strengths, and try and re-enforce that through the dam. I look at it from both directions.

B O'B: In terms of the physical match, that is important to you as well?

RJ: You can't ignore the physical with these horses.

B O'B: Is that a family which is dominant in terms of producing a physical type?

RJ: They tend to be big from that family, and gross eaters. That, I think is a management thing more than anything else. You just have to keep them in order and keep them fit most of the time, that's the right way to go.

I wouldn't send a big mare to great big stallion. I am not a fan of great big gross stallions. I'm more a fan of more athletic-type stallions.

B O'B: At what point in Ole Kirk's development, did you think 'I might have got this one right?', because not every brilliant match on paper works out in reality, does it?

RJ: It was probably when he won his first start, when he won the Talindert. I thought we might have something here. He's not a big guy, he's only now 16 hands, but he's athletic. When he won on debut, I felt he might be a good horse.

He matured from there, as horses tend to do. He's only a young horse, and he matured into his next preparation very, very well. I think that’s characteristic of that family. As a rule, that family is more a three and 4-year-old family than a 2-year-old family.

I'm not a big fan myself of early runners. They are more a physical thing to me. I'm not sure it’s more than that.

B O'B: When you look at Ole Kirk from a stallion perspective now, Rick, what sort of pedigree approach do you feel people will have to take in terms of matching mares to him?

RJ: I know the family very deeply. This is where it’s great with Vinery and Peter Orton in particular. He is very much on board with analysing the mares. Hopefully, for each enquiry that comes in, they will be forwarded to me and I can give my input on what I believe is the right type of mix. I'll hand that back to Peter and he can give those opinions back to the breeders.

There's nothing worse than wasting a mare, or wasting a stallion for that matter, if the pedigree match is wrong.

Hopefully with that type of influence, and I believe we will have a substantial influence on the way he is bred, that will give the horse every chance.

B O'B: From a physical point of view, as you mentioned, he is probably that medium-sized horse who will suit most mares physically. Is that your impression?

RJ: He's a beauty. He's my sort of stallion. He is 16 hands and an athlete. He's not a gross horse. He's an athlete and I'm really keen to breed him to be honest. I think we can turn him into a terrific horse if we take the right approach.

B O'B: From your own mares, what numbers will you look to breed to him?

RJ: I'm hoping to send 10 to him, but at the moment, I probably have eight. I intend to buy a couple of mares that will suit him at the upcoming sales. I have just got a great confidence that we can breed this horse properly and we can get a terrific result. It's such a powerful family, it just can’t be ignored.

The sireline is one thing, but I find if you find a way into a horse, it is often through the damside. The damside is the Black Caviar family and it's so potent. I'm a genetic breeder, and I'm confident I know the links to get into that family. That's what we will be aiming to do.

B O'B: When you look at the other significant stallion from the family, All Too Hard, has there been much you can gain or learn out of the successes he has had through his career to date?

RJ: Yeah, certainly, 100 per cent. If you go back through the family, and you look at Black Caviar, and she has a number of re-enforcements in there, but one of them is an old stallion, right back to 1935, called Bois Roussel.

If you have a look at All Too Hard, it’s no coincidence that Helsinge had the same re-enforcement as does Black Caviar. All Too Hard, if you breed back to Bois Russell, in the seventh or eighth generation, the stats show you, you will have 25 per cent success. That is to say you'll have one in four which will earn you $150,000 or better.

Those numbers are enormously attractive, I think Grey Sovereign and Bois Roussel are the two important links to this family. All Too Hard has continued to prove that.

B O'B: Is All Too Hard's stallion career, which has just continued to build in recent years, something you feel you can take a sense of pride in?

RJ: He's doing a super job, he gets winners every week. He's by Casino Prince, so it’s a very different game to Ole Kirk, where he is by the Written Tycoon. You have the same dam side of the family, but a different sire line which will give this bloke quite a substantial edge.

B O'B: So you feel that Written Tycoon influence will be crucial to his success as well?

RJ: The Written Tycoon sireline is a sireline for the future, where I think some of the other sirelines are dying out. There's a couple of these emerging ones, be they Written Tycoon or Invincible Spirit, Dubawi or Shamardal, and a couple of others that are that ones we will be talking about in the future.

B O'B: As a breeder, it must excite you to see these new sirelines come through, it must be like discovering a whole new part of the game to explore?

RJ: That's right. You are always looking into the future. We all have opinions, some or right and some are wrong. But they are my personal thoughts.

B O'B: It sounds like you are particularly excited about what Ole Kirk might be able to do at stud?

RJ: It always was. For me, as a breeder, from planning a mating, to watching the mare in foal and watching her have the foal, then to watch the horse grow out and get to the racetrack, it takes years and years. So when it all comes together, and you end up back in the stallion barn, it’s a breeder's dream.

B O'B: And you feel he is in the best hands at Vinery?

RJ: I can't stress that enough. I think the willingness of Vinery to get involved and work to a plan to me is really what it is all about. I feel like other studs would just take any old mare and that won't happen at Vinery, so I'm thrilled.